U.S. Ambassador to Brazil Elizabeth Frawley Bagley reflects on diplomacy in turbulent times.

Elizabeth Frawley Bagley has been a longtime summer resident of Nantucket and a prolific fundraiser for the Democratic Party. Bagley has served in a variety of posts in Washington, D.C., over the past four decades and has the unique distinction of having served as both the U.S. ambassador to Portugal and now to Brazil. She was the youngest ambassador to ever serve in Portugal and is now finishing out her term in Brazil as an appointee of President Biden. 

You were one of only a few politically appointed ambassadors to serve in two different posts. How are ambassadors selected? 

Well, as a political ambassador, and I’m a hybrid because I spent over 20 years working in the State Department, and then another eight years when President George W. Bush was in office as co-chair of the [U.S. Advisory Commission on Public Diplomacy], most ambassadors who were politically appointed were either close to the current president, helped him get elected, raised money or were close to personal colleagues. Usually, 70 percent of the ambassadors are career diplomats and 30 percent are political appointments, but with Trump, it was the other way around.  

You were ambassador to Portugal and are now ambassador to Brazil. Have you noticed an evolution of the role of ambassador from more of a figurehead to something more serious, given the instability in the world?  

You could be a figurehead if you wanted to, but there’s plenty to do. When I was ambassador to Portugal, I was the youngest ever and the first woman. There were a lot of things that I had to do to prove myself with the Portuguese government, the Portuguese people—with the men in particular on my staff and in the government. We did a lot of things with NATO as Portugal was a founding member. It was all very substantive. 

Given the tensions in the world, do you experience tightened security?  

Yes. We are actually building a new building because we don’t feel the current building is secure enough. After 9/11, everything was beefed up at every mission. We have eight Marines that guard the embassy, and then the ambassador’s residence is guarded by a private company. When I travel, I always go with bodyguards, and there is an advance car and a car behind me. 

Let’s talk about the political situation in Brazil. What parallels do you see in Brazil to what’s going on in the U.S.? 

There are a lot of parallels. [Jair] Bolsonaro was determined to have been actively involved in the insurrection against the Capitol in Brazil on January 8 [in 2023]. Bolsonaro is a big admirer of Donald Trump, and I think he thought he could do it because he had a lot of people in the military. Bolsonaro also never accepted his election results, which also mirrored Trump. Secretary of Defense [Lloyd] Austin came and met with the minister of defense in Brazil and basically said, “Do not do anything that might surprise us because if you do, we will take everything away.” 

When you [look back at] our history in Latin American relations, in 1964, President Johnson supported a military coup against anybody who looked remotely anti-communist, so we have had a checkered history in Latin America. Because [President Luiz Inácio] Lula [da Silva] and his party are very left, they tend to be more distrustful. [But] when Lula was elected, the first person to call him was Joe Biden, which helped solidify the relationship.  

Let’s talk about the environment, particularly since the majority of the Amazon is situated in Brazil. 

The Brazilians care about the environment, which Bolsonaro destroyed. Deforestation was at its worst when he was in power. He decimated the Amazon, but now up to 57 percent of it has been reforested. There are six biomes in Brazil, and it has the [world’s] largest [tropical] wetlands in Pantanal.  

Eighty percent of the electricity in Brazil comes from hydroelectric, and the rest is provided by nuclear, wind and solar. 

What do you make of the shift in governments to the left? And how does that impact our position in the world?  

I would worry more about the right movement. We were certainly worried about Marine Le Pen in France, but luckily, they had a second election. In the U.K., this was, I think, just a response to the Tory government, and I feel that many of these responses are reactions to the governments before them. I don’t think Brazil is particularly left. Although, there is certainly a hard left wing and right wing. Lula tends to be more pragmatic. He’s much more to the center left, and the people around him, like his finance minister, are very center.  

Despite the issues in America, are we still the guiding light for a country like Brazil? 

We like to think so but less than we were. We were the big democracy. People really do love the United States, and one of the major billionaires in Brazil, who I was talking to, said that “it is closest in every way to the United States of any country in South America.” Brazil has the most diverse population, and in São Paulo, the country has Lebanese, Japanese, German, Italian and Indigenous peoples. Black people, who self-identify as Afro-Brazilian, account for 58 percent of this country. 

Brazil is bigger than the continental United States and is the second-largest democracy. It has the second largest military to the United States, so they see themselves as very close. 

They actually love Disney World. It’s a rite of passage for a 15-year-old boy or girl to go to Orlando, Florida. Brazilians are the third-largest tourist group to the United States; they love everything about America. It really started with FDR’s Good Neighbor Policy and then JFK’s Alliance for Progress.   

Can you tell me any interesting stories about our relations with Brazil?  

When FDR had his Good Neighbor Policy, he was worried about Brazil because there were so many Germans and Italians. He was worried that they were going to support Mussolini or Hitler. So FDR sent all these brilliant creators, including Walt Disney, to Rio for a month at the Copacabana palace. Walt Disney himself created a character called José Carioca, which was a parrot with a straw hat and a cigar, and he was drinking and it became a caricature. He never worked but drank and smoked all day. He was a bad influence on Donald Duck but was his best friend. 

If you could make a broad statement about the Brazilian people, how would you describe them? 

I love their joie de vivre. These people are engaged, warm and outward. They welcome everyone there and their music is enchanting, which I’ve really gotten into. 

The country is complicated, and its politics are complicated, but its culture is not—it’s amazing. When you go to a concert, everyone is standing, they sing and dance and that’s what they do. You go to a dinner party and it starts with music and everyone knows every word of the song and the night ends with dancing. Their national anthem goes on forever, but Brazilians sing it with such passion. I never see people depressed and they are always up and very welcoming. They are wonderful people. 

What was the reaction in Brazil to the announcement that Biden was stepping aside in favor of Vice President Harris?  

There are headlines all over Brazil that say “Kamala ta pronta” that refers to the fact that “her suitcase is packed and she is ready to go to the White House.” The country is very pro-Kamala and sad about Biden, and personally, I feel he has passed the torch with humility and grace, “classic Biden.” The country loves Kamala,because 58 percent of the population self-identifies as Afro-Brazilian and this is a source of pride.